Tuesday, May 6, 2008

Replies to Comments

First, thanks for the welcome and for the positive remarks about Zeus. My previous book was called The Summer of My Greek Taverna. It was a memoir about living on the island of Patmos, site of St. John's Revelations. Mainly it is the story of coming to terms with Greek reality, which you can only do by actually working there, as I did when trying to run my own restaurant for one summer. But there are also meditations on Greece's spiritual aspects - as well as a number of my best recipes!

Erik: I know that the many of the conclusions of Jane Harrison et al are rightfully suspect these days in archeological and anthropological circles, but what attracts me to them is the way they try to connect the ancient Greeks on an intuitive, spiritual level. The way they just leapt so enthusiastically in, feet first. And, of course, it could one day turn out that they weren't so excessively wrong after all.

All I can say is that in writing Zeus, (especially the "dramatized" scenes of his seductions, etc.), I often had the eerie feeling that I was getting my insights directly from the Great Thunderer himself. No kidding.

As for Robert Graves, well, I met him once and worshiped him as a young man (have you read his late love poems? wow!), but now I know better about his often wild conclusions. So I believe I only quoted him after using his references to thoroughly check the original sources, i.e. Pausanias, Siculus, Nonnos, Apollodorus, etc.

Idriani's observations are spot on. The "Venus of Willendorf" was the source of my remarks about the "blindness" of the Goddess, and if I didn't credit Camille Paglia in her fascinating book, Sexual Personae, I should have. Also fascinating is Anne Baring's and Jules Cashford's The Myth of the Goddess, which delineates her manifestations throughout the ages. With many, many marvelous images.

I'm afraid I don't know much about the Gnostic purloining of the birth, death, and resurrection of Dionysos (also called Zagreus), but it's safe to say - as Frazer pointed out many years ago - that these death and rebirth stories were around for millennia before the Christians adopted them. As I note in Zeus,what's also interesting that his Mt. Ida birth cave on Crete was (and still is) a manger. Here's a photograph proving it:


[Taken from Iannis Sakellarakis' beautiful book on
the excavations, Digging for the Past]


However, as Elaine Pagel writes in The Gnostic Gospels, "some gnostics called the literal view of resurrection the 'faith of fools.' The resurrection, they insisted, was not a unique event in the past: instead it symbolized how Christ's presence could be experienced in the present. What mattered was not literal seeing, but spiritual vision." (p. 11).

Indrani: Do you think the source of your Hindu-Hellenism dates back to the encounter of Alexander the Great with the Gymnosophists? That event has always fascinated me.

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

Tom,

Thank you for taking out time to reply to my queries as well as posting your comments on Hrafnkell's 'A Heathen's Day' :-)

"" I often had the eerie feeling that I was getting my insights directly from the Great Thunderer himself. No kidding.""
I believe you and back your claim! I have felt vibes myself, from the Greek deities I worship: Zeus, Athena, Dionysus, Hestia, Apollo and Hermes. When you are full of the Gods (among whom Zeus is my favourite) you can hear them speak to you.

I agree with all you've said about the Gnostics; Elaine Pagels is a leading source on the Gnostics along with Prof. John Allegro, author of 'The Dead Sea Scrolls' and indeed the biographies of Mediterranean godmen, be it Zeus, Dionysus, Attis of Asia Minor and Syria, Adonis, Mithra of Persia or Osiris of Egypt, had been flourishing for centuries along with the Oracles, before the biography of a jewish saviour came along, who performed the EXACT (!) same miracles and lived an identical life as that of the other godmen. It's not difficult to see where his boigraphers were coming from. The Gnostic thesis further establishes, that the 'Theraputae', a group of Hellenized jews who lived lives in accordance with Pythagorean values, were the originators of the Jesus story.

The gymnosophists...the naked philosophers. It is an encounter that has fascinated me as well. For more than five hundred years after Alexander's invasion* of India, Indo-Greek kingdoms reigned supreme in the north and north-west of India. To tell you the truth, this is the part of Indian history I read and re-read. The intermingling of Hinduism's* gods and India's art and culture with foreign ones in globally pagan times, somehow holds my attention far more than any other era of Indian history. Ditto with Zoroastrianism's mention (it wouldn't be right to call it a 'mention'. The 'Gathas' have been related in virginal form in the Vedic texts) in Hinduism's guidebooks.

The Indo-Greek school of architecture: the Gandhara school, the kingdom of Bactria, sculptures in the Indian states of Madhya Pradesh and Utter Pradesh of Hellenic soldiers bowing down to Indian and Indo-Greek deities and even one pillar which features a relief of a hoplite standing guard over Hindu worshippers...Indo-Greek fusion is endless. I'm SO glad I'm not a monotheist, at war with other monotheists and with pagans!

I was introduced to Hellenism through a chance meeting with a Hellene (Agis Marinis) on the internet in the September of 2001. Hellas and Hellenism was till then, colourful history to me, but taking to Hellenism gave me a whole new perspective to life. It cleared the spiritual and political confusions and questions I've had since childhood which had not received adequate answers from either my family or friends. After my net meeting with Agis 6 and half years back, I became a member of his organization which has been directing the attention of the world to the discrimination faced by Hellenes in Greece and since then I have been a devout worshipper of the Hellenic Gods. I have now decided to relocate to Greece permanently. That country is now more than a passion; it's an obsession!

* Alexander was an invader like no other in history. He was the instigator of cultural miscegenation, of the Hellenistic Age. As an Indian, he is an extremely likeable 'invading' personality as opposed to the domineering, proselytizing and racist muslims and Christian rulers who came here many centuries later.

*Hinduism's true name is: Sanatan Dharm or the 'pure faith'.

Do you know that Indo-Greeks survive even today on the Afghan-Pak border and are being sustained by International relief organizations who are striving to protect their unique heritage? These people are called the 'Kalash' and they have retained their European features :-D I'll do my next post on them.

Anonymous said...

My organization's website:
http://homepage.mac.com/dodecatheon/

I communicated with Mr. Timothy Freke, one of the authors of 'The Jesus Mysteries: Was the Original Jesus A Pagan God?' a bestselling Gnostic analysis (now out of print)in 2005 and he was delighted to know that Hellenic organizations all over the world are reviving Hellenism and that polytheism as a whole is on the return in the west.

Tom Stone said...

Indrani - Thanks for all the fascinating material. I won't have time to go into it for a few days because I must return to some writing work I've been hired to do. Until this weekend (I hope)...

Tom

Tom Stone said...

Indrani,

As I wrote before, the things you have to say are absolutely fascinating and the breadth of your knowledge about these things extraordinary. Yes, I do believe that your university is the Oxford of the East. What a wonderful education! I went to Yale (BA in Eng Lit) but I wasted too much of my time there doing things that young men do and/or that their fathers tell them they must do! So, I have since been pretty much of an autodidact, putting things together on my own and trying to ask the best possible questions. I am still fumbling, but at least I managed to finish writing a few books. You might be interested to know that my new one (which I will start as soon as I finish the small projects I have to do now) is set in 5th c. BC Athens. Probably, it will be a novel, but that's still open. In it, I will try to make sense (for myself) of all the many crosscurrents of thought (political, philosophical, and religious) that were flooding the city in those days, from east to west and back again. Meanwhile, it will also (and primarily) be a love story...

Tom

Anonymous said...

Tom,

As soon as you send your manuscript for publication, do let me know. You can post on your blog here or you can email me: ashtavakra000@yahoo.co.in
because I'm going to buy and read it! A love story set in the ancient Greco-Roman world by a modern author is not something I have ever come across.

If you can make the book available to us, your readers (and do know you have a new fan following in google's pagan communities), via amazon.com that would be best as someone like me can order it from here.

Thank you for the compliment :-)

Anonymous said...

I added your blog to my list of blogs.

http://pagancandies.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Tom,

I'd be better off if it was the other way round. But 'Upstream From Lethe' has been tagged for a meme very graciously by my friend Chell and I thought you should have an award too.
Here:

http://pagancandies.blogspot.com/2008/12/with-many-thanks-to-paper-may.html